Challenges and Rewards

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of a Mission Granted. I'm your co-host, Brittany. I'm Christina. And I'm Natalie. We have an interesting episode for you guys today. So before attending grad school, usually hear some rumors about what it's like. And I know we've covered some topics and other episodes, but today we wanted to focus on the challenges and rewards of attending medical school and PhD school.

I know we each came up with a few challenges when facing graduate school, so I wanted to. Both Christina and Natalie, what was your number one challenge or what you feel your number one challenge is at medical school right now? I think that there's been a lot of different challenges along the way. I wouldn't say that there's one that's.

Overcomes all the other ones. But at the moment, I think one of my biggest challenges [00:01:00] is the idea of kind of juggling it all. We're at kind of a, a weird point in the year where step is a few months away, we're gonna be transitioning to clinicals in a few months. So we have that to prep for. We still have our, our regular units, kinda like we talked about in the last episode, and they, I've heard from, from.

people who are, who are upperclassmen that it's good to get your research experience in in second year as opposed to maybe waiting till third year. . Third year is tough when you're on the hospital schedule. Mm-hmm. . Cause it's more of, you know, a nine to five gig. Now we have lots of time during the day where we can carve out to do things like research, but it becomes more difficult once you get later on.

So you're juggling that, and so no one of those things is way harder than the rest, I would say. Mm-hmm. . It's just finding a balance between all of them and trying not to let any of. Balls drop, if that makes sense. Like just trying to keep them all up in the air. That's one of my most challenging things right now.

I don't know. I don't know if you agree or on what yours is, [00:02:00] Natalie. I agree. Yeah, it's a lot to balance and I think that's why it's so important to learn time management. and, and trying to be a balanced person on your own in your personal life, I think is important. For me, I think one of the most challenging things is just the sheer amount of material that we learn.

When I first started medical school, a lot of the upper class people told me it's like trying to drink out of a fire hose, . And I also heard that. Yeah. And it's, it's, uh, increasingly true. But I do think, I dunno if you agree with me, Christina. But I know a lot of other people that I've spoken to feel like it gets easier as you go on.

I think we just, our brains actually grow. We become better learners. There's actually a couple of studies done that show that med students, as they're extensively learning, they grow gray matter in their brain. So that's really cool. And it is sustained even like after break and months later. So I think that's just been the most challenging thing.

And like kind of ties into what you said, just balance. . Mm-hmm. , all those things, and then having to grasp so much material. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I think that's the same [00:03:00] for a PhD school that budgeting that time, because as we talked in the last episode, more along your classes are kind of smashed together in your first and second year, and that you're more typically working that like nine to five.

But once those classes are over with, like you are the boss of your own time. Like do you come in earlier? Do you come in later? , do you work nights and that like switch from undergrad to graduate school that we've talked about before, but it is a little difficult there managing your time and making sure you can juggle all those balls.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And it's, it's in very rewarding to be able to like have all your tasks done mm-hmm. and pass a quiz or an exam. Um, although that doesn't always happen too. That's a challenge in itself. Mm-hmm. , you know, the fact that we're learning how to learn as we. So, you know, that's another challenge for me.

You know, the, the grades when you're an undergrad, I think a lot of us are used to, at least for the med students, or used to being at the top of their class mm-hmm. understanding the material really easily. But in med school it's a whole different ballgame. So it is, [00:04:00] yeah. That's, that's in itself a challenge.

Just, um, coming to terms with the fact that you won't ace every quiz, you won't do as well as you might expect to do despite working as hard as you. That's another, that's a great segue to my next, uh, , my next challenge. When you talk about the word balance and the word management, I think for me, honestly, when you asked at the beginning, Britney, what my number one challenge is right now mm-hmm.

I would say this is my number one challenge right now, and honestly, probably for the rest of my life, but that's just a neat thing, . It's the ability, like I think I'm a pretty good time manager at this point. Mm-hmm. , like I know how to set a schedule. I know when I feel really weak in one area and I have to be honest with myself and address that.

But the thing that I struggle with managing the most right now is my own expectations. Mm-hmm. of myself, of others, of the way that things are gonna go. I'm beginning to learn. Like not every assignment is gonna be, you know, my best, best, best, best work. Just because we have so much, like we have so much going on.

[00:05:00] Yeah. That I'm learning to just. My best effort. Mm-hmm. rather than my best work. And that's something that does not compute well with me normally, because again, like the whole process of getting into med school is very arduous. It's competitive, you know, you're trying to be the best of the best. And yeah, I think for a lot of us, that's just kind of our personality.

Even if it's not. tangible all the time cuz who's like the best at everything. That doesn't exist. Right. You know, we're just people, but managing my own expectations is what I'm trying to work on. Mm-hmm. . And going off of that and what Natalie said, like, you know, we tried so hard in undergrad to get the best grades.

Like you guys took the mcat, you tried to get the best score. Mm-hmm. and when. I was sort of looking into what could be challenges for a PhD student, which is you don't have to be a genius to get a PhD. Like one of the big humps you get over is just applying and getting into graduate school. Like I was looking at the rates of acceptance, even just to med school or PhD school.

They're like 30%. They're really low. I think that just getting into [00:06:00] graduate school should be a success on its. . Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. I think celebrating successes is really important. That's one thing. Yeah. In my journey this year into, uh, recognizing all this stuff about myself, I think that's one thing I've noticed is that if I don't do as well as I'd hoped on something or like something, whatever it is, whether it's.

A grade or whatever, like mm-hmm. Whatever it is. If I mess up or I have to learn from something, I spend so much time ruminating about it and being man myself and blah, blah, blah. But the minute that I succeed at something and I do really well, I'm like, all right, cut. Right. Moving on tonight. Next thing. I don't take time to celebrate my own successes, and that I think is really, really important for success in the long.

Totally. It like motivates you. It does. And it reminds you. I think it's really important to to stop and remember like how far we've come and just appreciate that we work so hard to get to this point. Yes. This kind of ties into I think, imposter syndrome, which I know Britney wanted to talk about too.

Yeah. Revisit rather. Um, cause we did mention it in a previous [00:07:00] episode. , but part of how I combat imposter syndrome is just remembering like how far I've come and just remembering, mm-hmm. how badly I wanted this at one point and how far this goal seemed for me. But now that I'm here, you know, I just feel like I'm not good enough or something, you know, which I think, like we said, is just like a feeling that we all will face at some point, whether in our careers or in our lives.

but taking a moment to look back and like you said, celebrate your successes and mm-hmm. , recognizing that you put in a lot of work to be where you are. So comparing yourself to other people is not really conducive. Mm-hmm. to doing your best. I agree. Yeah. We're all passionate, focused, and we've persevered this far.

Mm-hmm. . So, and I think too, like I like the passion word that you use. Yeah. Because that's another thing that I've been learning this year and I. Challenging, especially for any graduate student in any program. I think this extends beyond medical when you're preparing for a career and you're not really doing that career yet.

We're learning about all these things and all these different [00:08:00] illnesses and things that people go through in their lives and, and all of that stuff. But we're not seeing it most of the time, at least as a first or second year med student, you're not seeing it in person. Mm-hmm. , like you're just, you're learning about it in a textbook kind of way.

So that's why I think that things like shadowing and volunteering and getting out there, you know, out beyond just your textbook are so important. Because I think just like when you screw up at something like we all do, and you have to invest time in learning. , you have to invest time in cultivating your passion.

Also, like I think if you don't consciously think about your passion mm-hmm. and you don't invest time in really like stoking that fire, you will lose it. Like it will go away over time. Yeah. So I think that getting that firsthand experience, whether even if it's working with a doctor for two hours or just following someone around the hospital who, who you have a good mentorship with, I think that that's really important.

You have to. your passion alive in a sense. Yeah. I think this ties into one of my, [00:09:00] like. Challenges as a graduate student is what I like to call the PhD blues. So that's imposter syndrome. How do you compare feeling lonely? You're having experiment problems. How do you channel your ambition? And I know we've talked about imposter syndrome and one of the first two episodes, so I don't wanna rehash like too much of like where you feel less than in comparison to your other peers.

but everyone feels like that in PhD school and you really have to, like I said, find something to channel your ambition. Do something you really enjoy and do it so much that when you're doing your fun thing, you kind of like your mind wanders back to your passion, your research, what you're thinking about that day at med school.

Something like that. And. Additionally, I've tapped my ego. I loved this sentence. I have thought about giving up multiple times. Just mastering out, like, I'm not embarrassed to say that, but like I've invoked my nature as a stubborn person to like get through it, right? That perseverance that [00:10:00] we talk about.

I'm not afraid to say I took a break. I. sought professional help. Like it's something that helps me as a person just to get through those PhD blues, but it's great to think big picture that reward at the end. Mm-hmm. , which we'll talk about later, but those PhD, blues imposter syndrome, that is a really big challenge for me.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I can imagine. Also, you know, on a previous topic, we're the first in our families to do something like this, so it's, it's just another obstacle or another challenge, I guess. Yeah. And I love how you used. Tapped in how you, kind of, like, you used kind of what was already inside of you. Mm-hmm.

like a part of your personality to carry you through in addition to other resources. I think that that's so key. Mm-hmm. , I think when I feel lost or I have a weak moment and I, you know, wish we all do. Mine was last Wednesday, , um, I cover the exact date I have to remind. Of like me, of who I am. Mm-hmm. , I have to do things that make me feel like me.

Right. Like spending time [00:11:00] with friends or Yeah. You know, going for a walk or watching a show or Yes. You're a girl boss. Walk . Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think it's about, it's less so about kind of like, comparing yourself and more about just being really introspective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love that. Another challenge that I thought about when coming up with challenges for PhD school is the student supervised relationship.

So your supervisor as a PhD student is someone you'll interact with every day. , if not every week, and you really should maintain a good relationship with them. Like our lab goes out to lunch, we celebrate birthdays, we get dinners, but your conversation with you and your supervisor is important because your lab needs funding and you need to be able to fund your project or.

Your PI needs to be able to fund your projects so that you have a substantial thesis. Mm-hmm. , and it's okay to talk to them about funding in your lab. It's totally normal. It determines your position, their position at the university, [00:12:00] and maybe even ask them about writing a F 31 award. This will not only benefit you down the line, but it'll also benefit your PI when they go up for tenure or something like that.

But if you find it difficult, maintaining a good relationship with your supervisor, as we've talked about in previous episodes, finding another mentor or another PI you can talk to to have this good relationship will help you navigate your current relationship with your pi. How do you guys feel? Do you think your student professor relationship is important or can be a challenge in medical?

Yeah, definitely. And I love the way that you talk about that cuz that's not the kind of setup that we necessarily have as medical students. Cuz the way that it works for us at least, is that every lecturer. , pretty much. I mean, there are some professors that give multiple lectures in a unit, but pretty much every professor gives just a few lectures in a unit.

So you have like, I don't even know how many professors, many, so many professors . Um, there's just so many. But for me, I've found that there are certain professors or are [00:13:00] certain people at upstate who I just naturally gravitate toward, and those are the people that I feel like we have a strong mentorship with.

But yeah, I, I agree. It's just about like finding the person who you just naturally. Vibe with, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But I have found that people are very receptive and open here at Upstate definitely to communication, to any kind of help that they can provide. And we do have our own challenges in communicating, I guess, with just the various different kinds of professionals that we're working with.

Right. I know that we're gonna have to eventually work with residents and attendings just as medical students and nurses, other professionals in other areas. physical therapists and respiratory therapists and things like that. So I think in general, I agree with you. It's really important to foster that kind of open communication, transparency and mm-hmm.

just being your best self. Mm-hmm. , I think that makes perfect sense. Do you guys have any other challenges that you thought was. Or to touch upon in med school. I do think that a big [00:14:00] challenge is just having a personal life in general. Mm-hmm. , let alone balancing everything. There's also like this misconception that med students are just like book worms and that we don't really have like personal lives.

Mm-hmm. . But the truth is there's a lot of time, there's time to hang out with friends and socialize. There's time to date if that's what you wanna do. There's time to pursue your hobbies, but it really is about prioritizing certain things and the truth of the matter is mm-hmm. , I don't think you'll have time to do everything that you wanna do.

Mm-hmm. . But if you prioritize like what makes you happy and you know your responsibilities, there can be a happy, harmonious balance of the both. Yeah, I definitely would, would add on a lot to that actually. I think that that's a great point. And also the way that I kind of look at it is, My week is a bank account.

Like that's the kind of the way that I look at it. Mm-hmm. , for example, this past weekend we had our annual Arctic blast. Yes, I heard it sold out. It was a Yes. It was amazing. It was a big event. Yes, great event. And it was all the schools, so it was like 500 plus people, everyone from [00:15:00] upstate, including faculty, residents.

It was really fun. And I that it was on a Saturday, and that Saturday I, I came to the library and I was expecting to get all this stuff done and do all this stuff before I had to go, and then I was gonna allow myself like an hour to get ready and then like one o'clock, two o'clock rolled around and I just decided, I was like, Christina, You're going home.

going home. Christine, I'm impressed that you came to a library that day. . Me too. I don't even know what I was doing, but you know, I obviously was behind on work after last weekend. Mm-hmm. cuz I was having fun. Mm-hmm. . But that's just like I invested time in something that I really was just pure on.

Adulterated fun. And it was great. I had a great time. Yeah. But I think it's just like how you invest your time, you know, if you wanna be someone. You know, a plus plus, plus, plus pluses all the time, and you wanna do that great. But you should understand that you might have other areas of your life that are not gonna have time invested into them.

Yeah. I think that's just like, you have to make your choices the way that you're gonna make them, you know? So true. Yeah. And I think that when [00:16:00] you give yourself the opportunity to let loose once in a while and not worry about responsibilities, when you are in the thick of studying and you're like, oh my gosh, I need to get out of here.

Mm. At least for me, sometimes I'm like, you know, but I had so much fun last weekend and that kind of like gets me through the week, if that makes sense. Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, it was a lot of fun. . Yeah, I was, I had a good time. I think another thing that I wanna add is, at least for me, and especially I think because I'm a first generation student, I don't know anyone else other than the people who I've met here and also a few friends from college who ended up going to med school.

I don't know anyone else who's in this. I'm, I'm just kind of, me, just, you know, the only, only person blazing the trail. . Yeah. Just like trying to blaze the trail, I guess. Yeah. But that's very, very challenging for me. It can feel. Very isolating. I feel as though my relationships with my family members have changed.

Yeah, definitely. My relat relationships with my friends, I've changed as my relationship with myself has changed. It can be very disorienting. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, [00:17:00] I would do it again and again. I would make this. decision to go into medicine over and over again. That's not what I'm saying at all, but it's definitely an unspoken thing that I think, mm-hmm.

can be hard to navigate, and I think that that's why being very introspective and finding ways to remind yourself about why you're passionate about what you're passionate about, and really cultivating that in yourself. Mm-hmm. can give you some sort of ground. , yeah. To, to not feel that way. And, and everyone that I've met here at Upstate who I've ever asked for mentorship from or really guidance from in any way has been so receptive to me, and I'm so grateful for that, which is awesome.

But yeah, I don't know if either of you have similar experiences that you wanna share. It really resonated with me. The fact that your relationships have changed, including the one with yourself. I. . As I get older and deeper into this career, I'm realizing how important it is to learn how to communicate with people who may not understand medicine or the terminology.

A big part of med school I think, is just learning this language. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It's [00:18:00] a whole new language. It's a whole new way of thinking. It's very scientific, and it sounds simple like it's scientific, but no, there are things that. Say Absolutely, because people listen to me now, you know? Mm-hmm. , not that they weren't listening to me before, but like they, they put a little more weight to what I say, especially when it comes to things that I'm studying and that I'm interested in.

So I really love that you mentioned that. I think it's really important that we reflect on ourselves, but also how we are presenting ourselves in the world and how, and how we agree, how we communicate with other people. Mm-hmm. , if we have covered all of the challenges, Of graduate school. I think it's time to turn to the rewards because Right.

As we said earlier, this is what gets us through graduate school is thinking long-term. Yeah. Thinking what's at the end of the rainbow, you know? Mm-hmm. , so to speak. Mm-hmm. , I know like one of the rewards of PhD school is being able to indulge your interest. If you have a project or thesis that gets going, uh, you can discuss your PI with like different scientific techniques that you're interested in involving in your [00:19:00] project, like cloning or antiviral therapy or mouse models, computer coding, your pi, or you can find another collaborator that will work with you so that your interests reflect in your project or if you're indulging your interests.

Like I love social media, and guess what? I'm on a podcast, you know, I was able to indulge in more. Science as a PhD student at Upstate? Do you guys feel the same way? Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Definitely. I think one of the coolest things about med school is that we don't really specialize in med school.

Mm-hmm. , a lot of people have this misconception that when you're in, you know what you wanna do, you wanna be, um, a gynecologist or psychiatrist, right. Or like, Yeah, you'd just be a surgeon. Right. But no, the truth of the matter is we learn a little bit of everything and then we get to decide what we wanna specialize in.

And that'll be for residency. Mm-hmm. . But I think it's really rewarding that we get to not only learn everything, but learn what we don't know, so that down the line, when we do become specialists or whatever we decide to do, whether it's teaching or [00:20:00] anything else, we can recognize. , our limits are mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. . I totally agree. It's definitely, I think that's why, to pivot back to another episode, I think I made this point, you have to love learning. Yes, to love medical school. You realize just how much there is out there to know. . And I think that's great for someone like me because I love mm-hmm. . I love learning.

I'm, that's why I'm here. I think too, another, I guess this is kind of a hybrid, um, reward and challenge is when you are faced with this task and you have. I guess I'll describe it. I'll describe it anecdotally like this Natalie. You will understand there are few feelings quite like standing outside the hallway waiting to go take a gross anatomy exam, that feeling

You know what? You know exactly what I'm talking about too. Yeah, we all stand in the hallway and your number and your name's listed on a piece of paper outside the door and you're waiting to walk in and the gross anatomy exams. Pretty long. I mean, the exams here in general are [00:21:00] several hours long, and the fear that I would feel when I would take those exams mm-hmm.

and you're just, everyone's kind of being quiet. No one's really talking. Yeah. Everyone's just kind of thinking, the fear that I would feel when I would take those exams, because again, if you don't pass them, you know you have to retake them and it goes. Yeah, I think under transcript and what have you, it's, you know, it's an arduous process to mm-hmm.

recoup from that in a sense. But I am someone, I'm very, I don't make decisions unless I am pretty sure that it's gonna work out. . Like, I am not a, I'm not a like rash decision maker, . I try to be very methodical, kind of a scaredy cat, like kind of spread in my own chat. . So for me, overcoming that fear in moments like that, and that's just one example was really tough for me at the beginning.

Mm-hmm. . But now I realize that I think I've benefited from it in the long run because it's shown me a part of myself. Like the first time that I shadowed in surgery was a similar feeling because I hadn't done it before. And even though I was. A non-scripted server, like it was still exhilarating to be there.[00:22:00]

Yeah. So I think that I learned from that in a sense as well. Yeah. I think what's really exciting about med school, like you mentioned, Christina, just the different things that we get to do. It's like there's so many firsts in med school. You know, there's gonna be a first time you see someone go through like something that you may thought you'd never seen before.

Mm-hmm. , I mean, it can go, you know, there's a wide variety of things that you're gonna see and do for the first time, and I think it can be really rewarding to kind of just come outta. And just like be like, okay, I did that. You know? Yeah. It is. Yeah. You're not scared of failure, you know, towards the end of your first or second year, as we were talking about earlier.

You just sort of start thinking positively, and that success doesn't all come at once, but it's mm-hmm. what drives you to keep going. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. I would definitely say that in PhD school, like. Reframing your thinking. I know we've touched on this a lot. Mm-hmm. , you know, comfortable with the uncertainty.

Listening to what you're saying, like Natalie was just talking about and thinking about what you're saying and how it's going to have an impact on the people around you. Yeah. But I feel like that is a really [00:23:00] positive outcome of going through med school and PhD school. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, definitely. People trust you more I think, in general.

Yeah. At least you know, for your expertise and that really. Your own like perception of yourself in the world and things like that. And it's just really cool and rewarding, I think, to continue to grow and learn, you know, in this lifelong career. That's really awesome. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's one of the rewards I wrote down was self-satisfaction.

Yeah. You know, towards the end of this. You will be proud of yourself. You'll be inspiring others. Your skillset is gonna be so much broader than you think it's going to be. You get to be called doctor at the end, which I, I can't wait at the, at my wedding to be Mr. And Doctor . I'm very excited for that. . Um, but like, you know, the validation that, you know, you're special, you're one of the few two, get through med school, PhD school, you're courageous enough to get through it and.

you're a very special snowflake. . Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And I love the conversation we're having too about how it impacts your relationship [00:24:00] with people, because like both of you guys said, I definitely have noticed that. . I mean, I'm, I like politics, right? Mm-hmm. , my, one of my majors in college is political science.

I love all that. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Love that. Love stuff. Yeah, so I love, I love politics. I love learning about it. I love studying it, and any opinion that I give, whether it's about politics or anything else, I feel as though since I got here, and now that I'm a year and a half, almost two years into it, I definitely feel like it holds more weight with people.

Mm-hmm. , like not in with myself, with people. Definitely. I think that people. Wanting to know my opinion about things, not even medical things. Just like, you know, Christina, where would you stay if you went to Florida on vacation? You know what I mean? like, just like things like that. I think people like trust my judgment more.

But I guess I have a, a question to post. Both of you we're talking about kind of how you change when you get to grad school and med school and how that changes your relationship with yourself. How do you think you've changed? Do you think you've. , do you think for the better, for the worse? Oh, I think I've definitely changed for the better.

Like just thinking [00:25:00] about, I don't know myself as an individual, like even in high school and like just thinking about like that transition to undergrad and then to graduate school, I'm just like, wow, I've, I've grown up so much. Like I think about what I say before saying it, and I take like more people's opinions into regard when like having a conversation.

I'm. Like when you're speaking to me, it's not just going through one ear. Mm-hmm. , like I'm actually listening, conceptualizing, and responding to you in a way that would be constructive to the conversation. That's great. Yeah. I think I've definitely grown as a person, just learning about like the human condition in itself.

It's made me definitely more empathetic. I definitely feel like I trust myself more just in general. Yes. Because I've been able to like get to this goal. I've unlocked this level. Yeah. You know? And. Now I'm realizing that like I, I didn't realize, I was like, kind of like a type A personality. . I think I might be you guys, , the jig is up.

Like I really like. Having challenging goals and meeting [00:26:00] them, which I never really realized before. Mm-hmm. . But you know, maybe I just didn't have the chance to appreciate like how far I had come in life already before medical school and now I get to just appreciate the different lifetimes that I've had within my life, the different things that I've done, and just appreciate the capacity for human strength and ability.

Yeah. And I feel like I'm not as fearful, like diving into myself. I feel like in high school and undergrad you kind of. I don't know. For me at least, I kind of locked myself in this box. And then, I don't know, as I became more of an adult in graduate school, I felt like I could unlock more of. Myself and like dive into my emotions, kind of like understand why I'm feeling this way.

Like what does this emotion feel like? Or like why would ha someone have this kind of response? Mm-hmm. , you know, I feel like I just dove into myself and kind of learned more about myself. Mm-hmm. like an sense. Yeah. Like analytical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would say too. I think too, like I. Because I, I'm very artsy, like I think I've talked about this before.

Yeah. And I love music and I [00:27:00] love theater and art and all, all of that, that whole world. I love it. And I feel as though definitely like pursuing a scientific education in my undergrad with my biodegrade and then getting here and, you know, , you're taught this kind of methodical way to think and to ask questions, and we have a whole checklist of things that we have to ask and do, and that's great.

And I think that's so important, but also like, I feel it's important for me to make it a point to expose myself to artistic endeavors. Like I feel like that is. Mm-hmm. , not even just. Good for me personally, cuz it keeps me in good spirits cuz I like it. Right. It's good for my brain. Like I understand the importance for creativity.

Yes. Yeah. More now than ever because I've lived for so long pursuing an education that is primarily scientific that I feel as though even when I go to sing now, like I go to. Sing in my church that I sing at and I sing just in my own head. I'm so analytical about it and I'm like, no, you're not supposed to do that.

You're supposed to like, you're supposed to understand the music, but you're also, this is like an artistic thing. Like I feel as [00:28:00] though that part of my brain is kind of dwindled. So I'm trying to expose myself to more art, and I also think like my entire life, This is kind of a personal note for it. Yeah.

This is kind of the episode to do that, I think. Mm-hmm. . But my entire life, like I've never felt like I fit in among anyone. Like when I was a kid, I never was that popular kid. I never had a lot of friends. I was always kind of a loner. I read a lot and I always used to think almost like, why Christina?

Like, just go find a group. And it's like, what? What's going on with you? You know? But I realize now that I. . Just different than other people. I, I'm, you know, I like to learn. I like to be, you know, in my own head I like poetry. Mm-hmm. , I like reading. I like all that stuff. And that's not a weakness, that's a strength.

Absolut. Absolutely. To accept yourself as you are and just say, you know what, yeah. I'm not that person. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't the prom queen, even though that's great if you work, but I just like, I've come to this level of self-acceptance. Yeah. Knowing. . I have been [00:29:00] this person my entire life and it's gotten me here.

Yeah. So it must be working. Yeah. Um, that's so cool. Like more self-assured, I guess is the right word. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Mm-hmm. , that's awesome. I, I mean, I loved everything you said, Christina. I think I agree so much with that, and I think that for me, a big part of also how I've grown in medical school is like being forgiving of myself.

Mm-hmm. because. I guess I'll get a little personal too. You know, I had a, a took a long time to discover what I wanted to do and figure things out. Yeah. And I was really hard on myself for not having done that. I saw a lot of my peers, like go on to become professors and do a lot of other cool things and like they're, you know, well into their careers.

And here I am just beginning mine. But it's also helped me realize that like, This is what I really wanted to do and I would've taken more time if it was needed just to be where I'm at. So I think that's really cool that you got to learn to accept yourself and appreciate those things about you. Mm-hmm.

because that's what's gonna make you a great doctor. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I really like that conversation We're having, you know, getting personal, kind of like opening up about challenges and rewards in graduate [00:30:00] school. I figured we should start to wrap up. Are there any other rewards that anyone wants to talk about?

I know I have. , go ahead. Okay. The last reward I wanna talk about for PhD school is conferences. And I know I briefly talked about it last episode, but conferences can be scary to go to just to talk to strangers and leaders in your field. But it is a bonding experience for you and your lab mates as well as others in science.

And you do get to travel. Like last year we were supposed to go to a conference in Germany. I was so excited to go. Mm-hmm. . But then we ended up switching to virtual, but this year it's in Montana. So like I get to travel. To, you know, the West coast. I've never, I've never been to the West coast , you know, I hate to admit that, but I'm excited to travel and I'm excited to hang out with my lab mates, you know, and bond on a more personal level than just, you know, than just experiments and lab together.

That's great. Yeah. I have conferences too and I'm going to one, um, a couple months. It's in DC I'm very excited. Awesome. Also, I'll have to ask for your [00:31:00] advice on travel tips and conferences. Cause this is my first one, so. Yeah. Yeah. I like dc. Yeah. I went to the March of Science in undergrad at dc. It was really nice.

It was, there were thousands of people there. Bill n spoke. It was, it was amazing. Yeah. He's an icon. Yeah. I love Bill . I love. Yeah. Well, that's exciting. Good luck to both of you at your conferences. Thank you. Yeah. Natalie, do you have any more rewards, or, not necessarily, but I just wanna end on saying that like the fact, like Brittany, you mentioned earlier, only, I think it's something like 40% or less get into medical school each year of applicants, and that just goes to show how much effort goes into selecting medical students and accepting them into the program.

So if you're here and if you're. , you know, having any doubts about yourself, you're supposed to be here. This is like, you did everything you had to, to get to this point. So, like Christina said, soak it in, enjoy it, celebrate. Mm-hmm. . And then you go on to meet your goals and then your goals will just grow and grow and who knows where we'll end up.

But yeah. [00:32:00] Yeah. I really, uh, had a great time talking to you guys today. Yes, I do. I do too. Yeah. I have one more point to make and then we can wrap. Please. I'm a woman of many. Um, I just wanna add that I, I did say some things about how your relationship with your family might change your relationship with your friends, and I kind of described that in a negative way, but I really didn't mean it to say that way.

I think that part of what I meant was that, number one, when you get to medical school, I definitely spend a lot less time with my family and friends. Mm-hmm. , not that I don't ever see them, but I, I just. , definitely the less quality of time. And I also think, you know, my personality, kind of like we talked about has become more mm-hmm.

analytical more, I guess I'm more studious now. , I don't know. But I also think in that same breath as the relationship with your family and friends changes, I'm sure you, this is true for you guys too. Mm-hmm. , my family is so immensely proud of me as well. . I think that that has informed our relationship because they celebrate me and they wanna see me succeed.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, [00:33:00] so I think that that's also a reward of going to grad school or med school or what have you, is at least for me, like, you know, getting to, to tell my family that. You know, I'm doing this thing and we're gonna, right. We're gonna do that. And it's just, it's been great. So, yeah. Yeah. It's very humbling when you get that like sentence back from your mom or dad.

You say like, I'm so proud of you. Like, you're doing everything I dreamed I wish I could have. Mm-hmm. , like, it's just so, it's so humbling to hear that. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. Well, thank you for tuning in everyone. Um, I know we have a few more important episodes to talk about in the future. So until done, talk soon.

Thanks for listening. Bye.